Australia close to defaulting on debts: Joyce
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Debt warning: Nationals Senator Barnaby Joyce (AAP: Alan Porritt, file photo)
Opposition finance spokesman Barnaby Joyce is courting controversy again, warning that Australia is getting to the point where it will not be able to repay its overseas debt.
Senator Joyce says the Federal Government is borrowing billions of dollars from overseas to fund stimulus spending and programs like the National Broadband Network.
And he has questioned whether the Government is in a position to repay those loans.
"We're going into hock to our eyeballs to people overseas," he said.
"You've got to ask the question: how far into debt do you want to go? We are getting to a point where we can't repay it.
"Let's look at exactly what they're doing now and ask this very simple question: are you paying back your money, are you even meeting your interest component, and can you keep the debt stable?
"Or is the debt racing ahead by more than even the interest expense? And if it is, any household budget will tell you that's a very dangerous place to be."
Senator Joyce has already been attacked by Labor for suggesting the states are close to being unable to repay their debts.
Federal Finance Minister Lindsay Tanner has rejected Senator Joyce's latest comments.
He says Australia's public debt levels are among the lowest in the developed world and the Government has a plan to pay off the debt in just over a decade.
"Barnaby Joyce's comments again today show he is totally unfit for any kind of position of economic responsibility in this country," he said.
"They are totally ridiculous and grossly irresponsible."
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said the remarks showed that Senator Joyce would be a risk to the economy if he was installed as finance minister.
"This is a most fundamentally irresponsible remark by someone who puts himself forward as the alternative finance minister of Australia, a man put in that position by a leader of the Opposition who says he has no interest in economics whatsoever," said Mr Rudd.
"So you ask sometimes about risk for the future, risk to the economy. Risk is here personified in an alternative finance minister who thinks you can play fast and loose with public language on Australia's sovereign debt."
Comments (143)
Comments for this story are closed, but you can still have your say.
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James:
09 Feb 2010 1:41:53pm
do we need the NBN?
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JustGeoff:
09 Feb 2010 2:03:54pm
Do we need the NBN? Of course we do.....
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Gregh:
09 Feb 2010 2:44:12pm
We dont need a hundreds of billion dollar white elephant project.
Of course getting in to debt may be the ALP way of doing things, but Australia was in a good financial position and no need to compromise and follow the US path.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Me:
09 Feb 2010 2:10:12pm
Yes.
Australia is currently running the second slowest internet access in the developed world, and it costs users more than any other developed country for less access.
The NBN will at least fix the "speed" part of it.
Aside from what the opponents to the NBN will tell you, the people who want "speed" aren't jsut internet gamers, 14 year olds, and movie pirates.
We bleed tens of thousands of IT jobs to SE Asia every year simply because the speed of internet based work blows ours out of the water.
Funding the NBN - giving us world class access (still slower than Japan, but that's fine) means we're attractive for businesses and projects that make use of distributed workforces and regional teams.
NBN = good.Agree (2) Alert moderator
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Moons:
09 Feb 2010 2:22:46pm
NBN might (if it ever gets off the ground) fix the speed BUT at what cost? Can we aford the direct montly payments as well as the indirect increase in tax?
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John:
09 Feb 2010 2:38:13pm
4 billion dollars is the government contribution to the NBN, and that will be recouped when it is sold off.
The 10 Billion taxpayer dollars the Libs want to give polluters so they can increase pollution by 13% is immensely more expensive and completely, utterly, mind numbingly dumb.Agree (3) Alert moderator
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Lukemac:
09 Feb 2010 2:42:12pm
Sorry but I have to disagree.
ADSL2+ Speeds are more than adquate for the great majority of business needs.
Cable is running a 100Mbits now, how fast do you need to go?
While the NBN sounds great, it a cost we cant afford, given the way labor hit the Countries C/Card.
a NBN could be rolled out over a far longer period of time.
i.e. as we can afford to pay for it.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Gregh:
09 Feb 2010 2:45:05pm
IT jobs are going to SE Asia because of the market potential and the generally very business friendly climate there.
It has nothing to with broadband speed.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Politically Incorrect:
09 Feb 2010 2:12:35pm
The lack of the NBN has what's been keeping Australia in a technological backwater.
Its the filter that we dont need.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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drew:
09 Feb 2010 2:19:18pm
the liberal party left this country with over $600billion debt to overseas.
Who really thinks Joyce and the coalition are a credible alternative government???Agree (1) Alert moderator
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John:
09 Feb 2010 2:40:00pm
The Libs spent 312 billion dollars in their last term as well and we still dont know what they spent it on.
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Cap'n:
09 Feb 2010 2:42:08pm
Yes but that's *private* debt, not government debt. So they can claim that they rebadged...errr, I mean eliminated government debt. Mostly through cutting funds to, or refusing to fund, everything within arms reach, but hey, zero debt right?
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Chris:
09 Feb 2010 2:24:40pm
Do we need the NBN?
A better question is, "Do we need Barnaby Joyce?" A resounding, "NO" would be the answer.
The guy's comments today are foolish. Australia's level of stimulus has been lower than OECD nations. Our level of sovereign debt to GDP is less than quarter than most other nations.
How did this fellow become the finance minister? C'mon!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Ann:
09 Feb 2010 2:28:40pm
No particularly if it is going to be stacked with politically tainted ALP mates on $450,000 a year!
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Mike:
09 Feb 2010 2:39:35pm
We need high speed internet (it should be illegal to advertise anything under 1Mbps as "broadband") but we don't need Conroy's idiotic filter to slow it down.
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James:
09 Feb 2010 1:44:22pm
Who is going to take any notice of what this clown has to say on the budget. He's not even sure whether he's talking about million...er, billions...er...thousands of millions...um I mean trillions! that right, it's trillions! It's about time you went back to doing tax returns for farmers, Barney boy. At least you'll be of some use to someone then.
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Tax Me:
09 Feb 2010 1:59:19pm
James, perhaps you may pay attention to what Tanner said last year then on debt on Lateline - if we do not achieve growth numbers predicted, then for every 1% shortfall in GDP there will be an additional cost of approx $10 billion. Lets not forget Wayne was no "genius" in his first year or so as treasurer - for example, not being able to find inflation numbers amongst treasury papers in front of him at a press conference.
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Yawn:
09 Feb 2010 2:08:03pm
I'm terrified.
It seems that Australia is incurring so much debt. And yet only yesterday I read about debt as a % of GDP and Greece, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Great Britain and the US were heading the list.
I'm almost certain that any default in debt will come from one of the afore mentioned countries before it come from home but just to make barnyard feel this his message is working.
I'm so terrified.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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drew:
09 Feb 2010 2:24:02pm
Debt is now over 100% of our GDP.
Howard and the liberal/coalition left us with over $600 billion deficit. And this was when times were good. The Coalition blew 100s of billions of revenue and left us debt ridden. (im sure every household could tell Joyce that this is no way to run a country).
Just be thankful this govt. did a fantastic job through the GFC and we didnt fall into significantly more debt (as would have been the case had we gone into recession).Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Simple Simon:
09 Feb 2010 2:46:45pm
You must live in some other country than Australia.
We had a surplus when Rudd came in!Agree (1) Alert moderator
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orion_mike:
09 Feb 2010 2:47:22pm
What a load of garbage. When Howard left office the government debt was virtually zero. Private Sector and State Govt debt is what accounts for the supposed $600 billion.
I do agree that Australia (governments and people) have to work smarter to sell the rest of the world goods and services that have been value added and hopefully we will start to pay-off some of this outstanding debt.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Neil:
09 Feb 2010 2:05:35pm
But who's the bigger clown, comrade, someone who gets stunned by a trillion dollars of government irresponsibility, or the ALP government who got us into this trillion dollar mess in the first place?
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Elvis:
09 Feb 2010 2:25:47pm
Neil - yes, K Rudd & Co are responsible for the GFC - we all know that. And they managed to keep Australia out of recession and away from 10% unemployment - one of a small hand full of countries to do that - but only because of the fantastic surplus the former Gov left. And we also know our friends in the Coalition would have simply waved a magic wand and it would have just all gone away. That's right - sarcasm.
It will be interesting to see what Tony and Barnaby manage to do if/when they taste power - it should be a bundle of laughs.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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EssJay:
09 Feb 2010 2:08:13pm
"Barnaby Rabble" does it again.
The guy is a total fool.
The appointment of Joyce to a key portfolio such as Finance speaks volumes about Tony Abbott's (the Liberal's "Mark Latham Experiment") poor judgement.
It is only a matter of time before Joyce is dumped. He is certainly an asset to Labor, as is Abbott with his "Great Big Con" climate "policy" which wastes $10 billion on "absolute crap", and does nothing to reduce emissions.
Quite frankly James, Joyce would be unfit to do ANYONE'S tax return.
He's a joke, Joyce!Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Stranded:
09 Feb 2010 2:25:28pm
That's right .... the only salvation Australia has is for the Federal Government to keep on spend, spend, spending.
Someone else will pay off the bill .... right ?
Kevin will be there in the long run to sort it all out ... right ?
So long as we have less debt that Greece and Albania it's managable ... right ?Agree (2) Alert moderator
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EssJay:
09 Feb 2010 2:46:42pm
Last I heard, our debt was the lowest in the OECD.
Next you'll be saying that people shouldn't borrow money to buy a house.
The plain simple truth is that Australian voters aren't as stupid as the Coalition would have us believe.
We know there's debt, we know it has to be paid.
The government borrowed and spent to stop us going down the plughole - and it worked. We have an unemployment rate below 6% - well below the forecast 8.5%, lower than the US which is 10.2% expected to peak at 12%, lower than the European Union's 10%, and far lower than say Spain which has just hit 19%.
Just stop your fear and scaremongering, grow up and thank your lucky stars the Coalition weren't/aren't in government, otherwise we would well and truly be down the plughole, still "waiting and seeing"!Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Tim Hoff:
09 Feb 2010 2:12:57pm
Everyone should take notice (everyone that pays tax that is) because the Government's stimulus, its broadband network, its school buildings rort and just about all its policies are about spending which is just a big future TAX.
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Stranded:
09 Feb 2010 2:15:32pm
What a beat up by the ABC.
No other media outlet is covering this story ... and if you read what the guy is saying he is refering to the reckless spending of the ALP and asking when will it stop. Thats all.
The ABC know that the Coalition is cutting through to the average punter and they are doing all that they can to sure up Rudd and Gillard. This includes a media assisination job for Abbott's team.
The ABC hold NO credibility in current affairs these days as they are too close to the ALP (Maxine Mckew, Kerry OBrian, Jenny Woodward, Barrie Cassidy, Bob Carr, Alan Carpenter, etc etc) and they also have their nose firmly in the ALP Government trough (extra channels, 24x7 news, new QLD building smack in the CBD).
Shame they don't cover off what commitments Rudd and Gillard made at the last election and hold them to that !Agree (5) Alert moderator
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jon:
09 Feb 2010 2:46:37pm
Mate haven't I read a Barnaby column on this very website? How can you get any more sympathetic to a mans views than actually publishing them (as silly as they are)? Time we stop calling the ABC leftist on account of its relevant, sober and rational analysisanalysis that, surprise surprise, brings it a little closer to the centre than the cynical, raving lunatics in the commercial agencies (read News Corp).
Smart always looks left to right wing idiots no surprise its the intellectuals who get called latte-sipping leftiesits not the dim folk (blessed though they be) being accused of such a crime!!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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gaz:
09 Feb 2010 2:35:03pm
You talk about credibility!
What credibility does the government have after spening $30m on the tender process for construction of broadband network and then deciding to build it themselves.
YES THATS $30M DOWN THE DRAIN.
and you question Barnabys credibility, LOLAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Billy Bob Hall:
09 Feb 2010 1:44:46pm
Barnaby is pretty right on this one. Australia's 'household debt'[ is at the 'tipping point' just to cite one example of the pain that is coming.
Of course chairman Kev will no doubt have another centralist 'spending plan' with borrowed money at the ready to use to try to 'paper over' the cracks etc...
I ya'all have got some money in the bank.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Longbow:
09 Feb 2010 1:51:29pm
I'm fairly sure he was referring to government debt.
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nerk:
09 Feb 2010 1:52:57pm
They still have the future fund to spend. After all we don't need to pay for the fed gov workers pension for another twenty years. Spend now tax later. worked for Whitlam in the 70's
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gs:
09 Feb 2010 1:54:23pm
Houshold debt? is the government planning to pay that back as well?
Surely Barnaby is talking about Govt debt?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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rising fast:
09 Feb 2010 2:01:55pm
good point, although the rate of the expansion of the Govt debt since Rudd got in is fairly impressive. If they can't reign it in they'll be in trouble. Also, if household debt overwhelms a large portion of Australians, and they all go broke, who pays for it then? The knock on effects could be wider and more drastic than you think, including significant effects to the Govt. budget bottom line (I'm guessing, I'm not an expert).
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Alan:
09 Feb 2010 2:02:01pm
Hi Billy Bob Hall,
This article is not discussing 'household debt', it is discussing national/government debt.
Lindsay Tanner is right when he says our national debt is near the lowest in the developed world at well under 20% of GDP. The countries around the world at risk of defaulting are running national debts of more than 100% of GDP. We are not close to this and all current spending including the NBN will not get us anywhere near this level.
Household debt is much more of a problem, but really people need to manage their finances, BUY LESS and not make discretionary purchases on credit they may struggle to repay.
Hope this explains something, can't help with much more as I could not comprehend the meaning of your subsequent 'sentences'.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Michael:
09 Feb 2010 2:03:51pm
Household debt isn't public debt. Australia's total indebtedness (public and private) may be large, but AFAIK the public component isn't particularly so. I think we have far too much private debt, courtesy of PPPs and similar ways we now finance and build public assets. And that debt is more costly than public debt as it has to be borrowed at higher rates.
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nina:
09 Feb 2010 2:07:23pm
Household debt is not overseas debt, and for you to confuse the two is predictable if you are believing anything Barnaby Joyce is saying. The guy is a hayseed who has no business governing anyone.
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HeathD:
09 Feb 2010 2:11:37pm
When Howard presided over the monumental ballooning of household debt, the liberal party response was that he could not control how much debt individuals choose to get into. Now Labor is in power the government is supposed to do something about it...
Before the liberal party got into power in '96, they drove a 'debt truck' around the country proclaiming $96billion (13% gdp) in foreign debt. When in government that figure expanded to $1072 billion (95% gdp).
(source: http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/RP/2008-09/09rp30.htm). Yet whenever this is mentioned the subject is miraculously changed to 'national debt'. Barnaby Joyce has nothing to say on this subject, for no other reason than his side of politics is responsible. It proves that he is not worried about debt per se, but EVIL LABOR DEBT.
The Liberal party is nothing more that fraudsters intent on lying to and manipulating the australian public about all matters economic, and Barnaby Joyce is simply the last in the line of idiots who trot out whatever rubbish they think will resonate with the australian public. That is why we are now bombarded with "chairman Kev', 'all style no substance', 'great big tax' childish nonsense. Its like trying to get political analysis from a possum.Agree (2) Alert moderator
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Politically Incorrect:
09 Feb 2010 2:14:27pm
Silly Billy,
Joyce is talking about State Debt not household debt. Household debts were un re-payable in the Howard yearsAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Izvestia:
09 Feb 2010 1:47:45pm
Is anything BJ say based on facts/research/figures etc?
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EssJay:
09 Feb 2010 2:10:43pm
No. He just shoots from the lip. He doesn't let something like facts get in the way of a one-liner!
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alantaylormade:
09 Feb 2010 2:16:44pm
Of Course not !
He speaks from his heart & shoots from the hip...
Isn't that the skill set for a finance minister ?
Not even Tony 'living in the past' Abbott will be able to keep him in this role for long.
Might I suggest a sint as Shadow Minister for Chasing Shadows, we coud pin a tail on him while his 'brain' is busy making noise from his mouth - he won't notice it until he turns around & finds a shadow he can keep chasing for years :)Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Frade:
09 Feb 2010 2:42:36pm
Actually, he's not far off the mark. If any one of Australia's large trading partners hit the skids big time (eg China, or Europe), which is entirely within the realm of possibility, the all of a sudden our ability to repay our public and private debt nosedives, and Barnaby Joyce looks like a genius.
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James Ciantar:
09 Feb 2010 1:48:00pm
If business (eg Telstra) doesn't see the NBN as having investment attraction ie, it will be profitable, then what the hell is the government doing putting taxpayers money into it.
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HeathD:
09 Feb 2010 2:13:16pm
because business seeks to make a profit whereas the government seeks to provide a service. A company may decide not to invest because they can acheive a higher return on their money elsewhere. Government decides to invest on a basis of need, and in this case, productivity and efficiency.
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Politically Incorrect:
09 Feb 2010 2:16:18pm
Beacuse it needs to be done. Its going to take a while for the NBN to pay for itself but it needs to get done.
Telstra are the guys that made telecomunications profitable by ruining the industry. The NBN is simply fixing Howards mistake of selling Telstra in the first place!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Alan:
09 Feb 2010 2:26:33pm
They could have applied that same logic to the cost of installing telegraph & then telephone line infrastructure around Australia all those years ago.
Private enterprise did not pay for it then either as there was no short term profit availabe. It came down to the Australian people paying through their taxes & who would disagree now that it should have been done ?
If not we would all have a pigeon coop in the back yard... think how many pigeons a teenager woul need to send 50+ SMS messages a day... then there's the pigeon poo from the millions of pigeons & all that birdseed...
Niave commentary can lead to amusing feedback (it is at least amusing me :)Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Kocsonya:
09 Feb 2010 2:28:28pm
That's what the government should do.
If there is a service that the society needs and the private sector doesn't find it lucrative enough, the government provides it for us, from our taxes.
Like Telstra was, before the privatisation.
I guess, like Telstra, the NBN will be much more attractive to the private sector once we paid for the fiber, the switches and all that jazz.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Business:
09 Feb 2010 2:31:02pm
The govt. are providing a service (internet), not making profits. It's like many services our tax money provides. Even at a local government level something such as a public swimming pool is not profitable, but the community want the service. If the local government didn't provide it, a business would not be able to operate the service and make a profit.
If Australian's want this service, business are not the ones who are going to give it to us - there is too much land to cover without recouping enough profit!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Oscar:
09 Feb 2010 2:47:20pm
"If business (eg Telstra) doesn't see the NBN as having investment attraction ie, it will be profitable, then what the hell is the government doing putting taxpayers money into it."
Because all private infrastructure providers will put the infrastructure where they can maximise their return on investment, which means unless you live in a major conurbation you are out of luck with telephones, internet, electricity. etc etc...Agree (0) Alert moderator
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justin:
09 Feb 2010 1:48:03pm
Truth hurts. The smae bankers that got billions and trillions from Obama were having a discussion on Sydney this weekend and they would like nothing better than us and europe to pay them lots more money.
Borrowing billons means giving bankers a pen and paper to create some fictional sum of money and then being indebted to them whiel they source some credit from China or Saudi and the bankers end up being the ones we will be paying multiple times the cost of our debts.
On ya BarnyAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Pen Pal:
09 Feb 2010 1:48:37pm
No harm can come just by asking the question.
It seems reasonable the Government should respond and assure us that we can repay the debt and the timetable to do so. If we get a statement from the Government we, the electorate, can then decide who's got credibility.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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anon:
09 Feb 2010 2:20:36pm
Actually harm can come from making accusations (which is what these "questions" amount to) without any evidence. If lenders think you aren't able to pay then they make sourcing funds much more difficult or at much higher rates.
Barnaby Joyce just likes to level baseless accusations at the government in the hope that some of it will stick, even if it hurts the country's reputation long term.
He's done it before and, while people still believe him, he'll do it againAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Stewie:
09 Feb 2010 2:23:26pm
That is a very measured response. But lets be honest, your approach to the issue seems far too balanced and rational for most of the posters on this web forum.
If the question is asked and you think it's stupid shoot it down with facts - if you can shoot it down that is. Tanners blow hard personal attack shows he has something to hide.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Arthur Putey:
09 Feb 2010 1:49:13pm
Barnaby Joyce is turning into the Sarah Palin of Australian politics. Like Palin, he does a great job of energising the more hardline right-wingers who just can't get enough of his "authentic" observations and his general "going rogue" antics.
The catch is that he alienates the more thoughtful swinging voters who might otherwise vote Liberal. So the bottom line is that BJ is doing a magnificent job...for Labor. And in the process he's right now deflecting the heat which should really be on Labor's Achilles' Heel, namely Senator Conroy.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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EssJay:
09 Feb 2010 2:15:16pm
"Barnaby Joyce is turning into the Sarah Palin of Australian politics"
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I won't have it I tell you, I won't have it!
Julie Bishop is the Sarah Palin of Australian politics.
Barnaby Joyce is the George Dubya Bush of Australian Politics.
And Tony Abbott is just the Liberal's "Mark Latham Experiment".
How embarrassing!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Gregh:
09 Feb 2010 2:47:01pm
and Rudd is the AL Gore of Australian politics.
These silly comparisions dont help for a mature debate.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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GoodLaff:
09 Feb 2010 2:20:27pm
Thanks Arthur. It is a timely reminder that underperforming ministers like Conroy deserve much greater scrutiny. Unfortunately Senator Joyce's comments and Abbott's cobbled together policy on carbon reduction are giving the government a free ride.
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Poll Hereford:
09 Feb 2010 2:31:14pm
I thought the traffic was in the other direction- with Palin being scarily familiar to Australian's but seeming even more bizarre toAmericans. he's a type of Queensland politician who has burst onto the national scene before. Of course the fact that it's an act and he's from a well-to-do family and tertiary educated is a little wrinkle we won't let get in the way of the 'identity' politics.
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Cocky:
09 Feb 2010 1:49:34pm
Anyone who knocks Barnaby for his ridiculous and irresponsible claims about debt is a bum. At least he's looking after agricultural exporters by trying to start a run on our dollar that pushes up export prices. Have you seen the exchange rate lately?
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Alan :
09 Feb 2010 2:32:34pm
Yes it is excellent isnt it, might help pay of that debt a bit faster.
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Longbow:
09 Feb 2010 1:49:50pm
This has to be the last straw for barnaby. Has he seen what even the slightest whispers of a debt default can do to a country's economy? Talk about scaremongering! We have one of the best debt positions in the developed world and one of the best records for paying it back. Hence the federal gov has a AAA credit rating. If there was ANY chance of this happening it would have been downgraded.
When a man talks down his own country for political gain, with no basis in fact, he must be hung out to dry.Agree (2) Alert moderator
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Peace9:
09 Feb 2010 1:49:52pm
THIS MAN'S COMMENTS DOES NOT HELP AUSTRALIA DOES NOT HELP THE AUSTRALIAN ECONOMY.
THESE ARE IRRESPONSIBLE COMMENTS FROM A DESPERATE POLITICIAN FOR POLITICAL GAIN.
BARNABY PUT COUNTRY BEFORE SELF!Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Simon Whyatt:
09 Feb 2010 1:50:02pm
I can't imagine a more potentially damaging statement to the ongoing health of the Australian economy than this latest gaffe by Senator Joyce. As a traditional liberal voter, I find myself despairing at what the federal Liberal party has become. The head-in-the-sand approach to climate change, irrational and ill-informed statements by the party on our economy and the recycling of out-dated politicians into the shadow cabinet leave me with little choice but to choose Labor at the next election - for heaven's sake, give us moderate liberals a choice!
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P Q:
09 Feb 2010 1:50:17pm
Barnaby Joyce is right on this one. It has been happening for a long time, which is why BJ can be so sure. If not for the limitation of foreign ownership, Telstra, Qantas, and even chunks of our country would be sold to pay for our debts. If you do a bit of research into ownership of our major corporations, cattle stations, major property developments in Queensland, WA, etc, etc, you will find that they are already in foreign hands. We are not far from USA where the major creditor is another country.
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justin hale:
09 Feb 2010 2:13:46pm
I though Barnaby was talking about Government debt, not Corporate debt. Government debt will be paid the way it always has been; from government income, be it mining royalties, tax receipts or the eventual sale of the broadband network.
What Barnaby (and the rest of the neo-cons) fails to acknowledge is that most of the current government debt is not from increased spending but from a decline in receipts brought on by the economic downturn. A coalition government would have faced the same decline and also incurred debt. The difference is that the coalitions position (do nothing) would have increased unemployment to 8+%, and kept it at high levels for longer. This in itself would have caused a further decline in government income and an increase in expenditure (dole payments).Agree (0) Alert moderator
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bruce:
09 Feb 2010 1:50:22pm
Does BJ know whether we owe "Billions or trillions"????????
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hmmm:
09 Feb 2010 2:28:39pm
with rudd at the helm.... does it really matter?
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Tax Me:
09 Feb 2010 1:52:39pm
The standard "our debt levels as a percentage of GDP" comments will soon line this forum.
Unfortunately, however, Joyce may well be on the money. Just last week there was some detailed analysis in the Fin Review over our debt levels. The threat to our economy came from an unlikely international source - the Euro zone and more particularly what is happening in Greece. There have already been knock on effects into the UK and Scandanavia. One might normally expect that US debt levels may be more of concern (with debt currently in excess of 100% of GDP when individual state debt is taken to account).
Given the recent statements of Mssrs Swan & Rudd re an ageing population, that we need to boost productivity, that we need to keep the "oldies" in work longer, this may well give some weight to Joyce's judgements. Are we going to rely on a "never ending" resources supply, or will be face increased taxes to provide the revenue to pay down debt, or will federal services be cut? Some of these questions I and others have posed before and I still don't see a fundemental plan in place to address these issues.Agree (2) Alert moderator
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Grizzle:
09 Feb 2010 2:16:15pm
The % of GDP is a relevant argument, dont fob it off.
I suspect you would rather be living is Brazil or Botswana. This economic scaremongering is pathetic, we have been hearing it since 1973. Australia will survive, we are nowhere near the brink. Barnaby, Joe and Tony should up there comment/truth percentage to somewhere near 50% and we might have some resemblance of decent political debate in this country.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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steve:
09 Feb 2010 1:53:00pm
At last. An opposition ready and able to speak its mind! The old adage "Don't spend it until you've earned it" is right. Sure, we borrow to see greater dividends in the future. But the present way the government is going, we're borrowing wastefully.
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mik:
09 Feb 2010 2:06:05pm
speaking your mind is a good things unless of course it is unbalanced
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peterpeter:
09 Feb 2010 1:54:20pm
Barnby's philosophy
If you can's say anything sensible, just say anything at all
Don't just stand there looking stupid, open your mouth & prove it
Tony will fix it later
My names er um Billy Bob am I right ?
Hello, I should be goingAgree (1) Alert moderator
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Robert:
09 Feb 2010 1:54:48pm
Seriously, I am embarrassed to call myself a Liberal voter, Barnaby really needs to wake up and learn that ignorance is NOT bliss!
Liberals got enough problems without the fools from National party rearing its ugly head.
Sooner the Liberals realises that the National Party is a petty self interest group of small but vocal minority the sooner we can get back to power.
Barnaby I can tell you one huge plug to lower the debt.
Stopping all drought payouts, flood payout followed by drought reliefMake them pay it back!
Oh yes scrap the diesel subsidyAgree (0) Alert moderator
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The Best Rob:
09 Feb 2010 2:46:48pm
Rob, if you are embarrassed to call yourself a Liberal voter, then don't. You are an individual, you are allowed to vote for the party that you think would be the best one for the country, or for yourself if you like.
Voting for a party because your "a <party> voter" is a bad idea.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Duke775:
09 Feb 2010 1:54:52pm
Tony Abbott, formed an opposition, very similar to the Joe Bjelkie lot, of the early 80's, and Barnaby (Joke) Joyce is a perfect example of this.
No facts, does not know the difference between a billion & a trillion, some finance spokesman, and then there is "No Policy" Joe Hockey, another fool!
If this is the alternate government lead by that quasi religious, sextist Abbott, what choice do we have!!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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P Q:
09 Feb 2010 2:13:25pm
Don't underestimate Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce. You don't have to be smart to succeed in politics, you just have to hit the right nerve. Right now Abbott and Joyce have hit the right nerve because many voters have not been educated enough to question their proposal. And even when the voters start asking questions, a fib and sleight of hand could still get Abbott and Joyce across the line.
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Ann:
09 Feb 2010 2:35:31pm
No the only government similar to Johs is the current ALP government in QLD both in make up and style - ask Tony Fitzgerald who uncovered the corruption then and is warning of its reappearance now.
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Icey:
09 Feb 2010 1:56:08pm
I think the man should be listened to. I really cant see many western countries paying off their debts considering the public appetite for services and the demographic problems coming our way. Live within your means I say.
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John:
09 Feb 2010 1:56:17pm
I'm getting the impression that the opposition will do *ANYTHING* to gain power, and that includes bringing down the country. If politicians want to snipe at each other and bring governments down, then that's part of politics. To bring down the country itself is to destroy people's lives and it is obscene and immoral.
Only a deviant would take the view that Australia needs a Liberal government so much that it is worth destroying the nation to get it. Joyce needs to come out of political la la land and realise that he is dealing with people's lives, not pawns in a game of chess.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Kocsonya:
09 Feb 2010 2:17:37pm
"Only a deviant would take the view that Australia needs a Liberal government so much [...]"
I don't think that it was of consideration what Australia needs.
More like what Mr. Joyce needs.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Grizzle:
09 Feb 2010 1:56:28pm
He is totally Wrong, misleading, and ignorant.
Aust foreign debt as a percentage of GDP is one of the lowest in the world.
I had some respect for barnaby as an neo-independent, now he is in the shadowy-cabinet fold his hyperbole has become almost fantasy. Tell a lie with passion and commitment and some will belive you and vote for you. Truth is the first victim in war and election year.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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gaz:
09 Feb 2010 2:47:10pm
What Australias current debt is in relation to GDP pails into insignificance when you look at the % terms of how this ratio has increased since Rudd came to office.
His before compared to his after is the fastest deteriorating debt ratio in the industrialised world over the same period.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Marilyn:
09 Feb 2010 1:56:49pm
Large chunks are being repaid as taxes instead of the dole as jobs are created or saved.
Will the illiterate and ignorant refrain from making nonsense statements about house hold debt and so on? What does household debt have to do with the price of eggs people?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Max:
09 Feb 2010 1:56:55pm
Once again the message to voters is: "Be scared."
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Mr Mann:
09 Feb 2010 1:57:50pm
What are the real big benefits of building the NBN? I don't think the benefits of having one would outweigh the debt it will cost to bulid it.
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GoodLaff:
09 Feb 2010 2:16:54pm
Increased productivity, which is desperately needed when Quarry Australia begins to empty. We will need to have a smarter, faster service based economy without manufacturing and mining.
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Andrew:
09 Feb 2010 2:20:11pm
On the money there Mr Mann. $60 Bill for an NBN when you can get mobile broadband for $35 per month in 98% of Australia. Russia showed communism didn't work!
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Jan:
09 Feb 2010 1:58:55pm
Notice that Barnaby didn't mention the excessive personal debt in Australia with less chance of paying that back than the public debt. Or is it just that big figures frighten him?
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granny:
09 Feb 2010 1:59:50pm
Strange bloke this Barnaby character, since he has been made Opposition finance minister, he is making bigger fools of the Opposition than Abbott.
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Simple Simon:
09 Feb 2010 2:16:17pm
I guess the truth about Rudd's catastrophic debt strategy hurts!
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circling buzzard:
09 Feb 2010 2:00:44pm
Barnaby Joyce from all accounts is a "good bloke",but why is it I get the feeling we have a "new"Joh Bjelke in the Nationals.
The Senator would be well advised to seek help from people better versed on matters he elects to offer his views on.
Abbott must cringe when this chap lets loose, as do most of us.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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smee:
09 Feb 2010 2:00:58pm
Probably could live without the nationals, In the last WA state election they courted the idea of forming a coalition with labor.
I seem to recall Australian per capita debt was running around the $30K wereas in the US it is close to $1million per family. I don't have the figures on hand perhaps someone can elaborate.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Pablo Diablo:
09 Feb 2010 2:01:14pm
Barnaby Joyce is a dangerously naive man. His modes of operation are force and fear - hallmarks of self-interested dictatorship. There is no diplomacy in his straight-talking, no sign he understands the first art of politics - compromise.
What worries me most though is the rate at which Australians are embracing this style - not just from BJ but others too like Abbott and Hockey. Straight-talking and straight-yelling are to be favoured at all costs, even if what is said and yelled is complete and utter nonsense. If we embrace this style, we bargain with those who do not respect our intelligence, and therefore who don't respect us as people. This will become apparent very quickly if we hand power to this kind of approach.
Sadly, the government is so stultified by its leader's belief in process over result that it leaves the door wide open to this kind of approach.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Ray:
09 Feb 2010 2:01:30pm
I agree with Barnaby.
Rudd likes to go into debt for political expediency and earn brownie points with an ignorant public. Make no mistake, debt must be paid back sometime, so take a good look at your children. Who in there right mind wants their kids to pay for all of this?
As one of the most resource rich nations on earth, it's hard to believe we're in so much debt.
I for one would like to see the household budgets of every politician in government, if they can't manage that, then they aren't fit to manage anything larger.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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jungleboy:
09 Feb 2010 2:01:36pm
The elephant in the room is private debt - specifically household mortgages. He is right, pointing out an obvious flaw in our monetary system. Our whole civilisation has been born out of one giant ponzi scheme. Money is created out of debt. Central banks around the world create money out of thin air. Banks create mortgages out of this air, providing no consideration. They only create the principal and this enters into circulation. The interest is not created. That means that debt can never be paid back in full. The only way to keep the scam going is to create more debt. The majority, in debt slavery, compete to suspend the money supply long enough to pay off their loans. It happens to be the terms of their natural, productive lives.
Barnaby Joyce will be shouted down. He is undermining the whole game. It is not within our belief system to question or imagination to experience life without money.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free" - GoetheAgree (0) Alert moderator
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rayy:
09 Feb 2010 2:02:13pm
PROBABLY FORGIVABLE, BARNABY GETTING A BIT MIXED UP WITH BILLIONS AND TRILLIONS..TRILLIONS IS A NEW LABOR DEBT. UNKNOWN UNDER LIBERAL/NATIONAL GOVT.. JUST HOPE LABOR REALISES HOW MUCH IT IS AND HOW DIFFICULT TO REPAY SUCH MASSIVE AMOUNTS
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Observer:
09 Feb 2010 2:02:15pm
It's the same old thing. Liberals earn the money and Labor spends it . Nothing's changed
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justin hale:
09 Feb 2010 2:30:40pm
Same old tired rhetoric, nothing;s changed. In fact the Liberals did not 'earn' any money - they got it from things like tax receipts and mining royalties, same as any other government. But they did spend quite a bit on trying to buy votes - If they had saved the results of the mining boom we would not have needed to go into debt when government income fell as a result of the GFC.
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Poll Hereford:
09 Feb 2010 2:35:49pm
Except that the Liberals spend it on votes and Labor creates infrastructure, perhaps? Glib pronouncements never let you down.
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John:
09 Feb 2010 2:04:31pm
The elephant in the room is that is is NBNCo, not the government that is spending the $43b. A large chunk of the $43b will come from NBNCo's private shareholders, not the government. Even then, the government's portion will be financed through a bond issue, which will then be repaid by profits from NBNCo. Hence, the net outlay will be zip.
If the government was to spend a few billion on the mother of all big screen TVs, which will go obsolete tomorrow, that would be wasteful. To spend it on an infrastructure asset that will contribute to productivity for years to come, that's wise.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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JM:
09 Feb 2010 2:04:35pm
What an asset to the Coalition! This next election could be comical. We'll have Tony shooting his mouth off about womens electricity bills going up because of all the ironing they do followed swiftly by Joyce threatening to sack half the public service. I can't wait!
PS - Private debt may be a problem (Billy Bob Hall) but he's talking about government debt or don't you understand the distinction.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Anna:
09 Feb 2010 2:05:48pm
If Howard has invested in the NBN when he was in power, Australian's wouldn't be paying ridiculous prices for slow internet speeds.
I find it amusing how the Libs don't invest in the future at all, boast about their great economic strategies, leave it up to Labour to do all the investing when they get into power to get Australia within reach of world standards and then moan about Australia being in debt.
With that being said, Tanner is right and Australia's debt is relatively low compared to the rest of the world.
Our political parties still have a long way to go though...Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Simple Simon:
09 Feb 2010 2:06:05pm
We cannot afford this government.
They came into power with a fifty billion surplus. Now we are two hundred billion in DEBT!!
Not only that we want to give away billions of this borrowed money in aid?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Mick:
09 Feb 2010 2:38:19pm
"They came into power with a fifty billion surplus. Now we are two hundred billion in DEBT!!"
something called the GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS.... Hello Simple Simon!!! earth to major tom!!!.... Australia, the only western country to NOT go into RECESSION.... HELLO.... you think we avoided it by sitting on $50bil.... no $50bil plus some to keep people like you and me in jobs and out of dole ques.... wake up to yourself pleaseAgree (0) Alert moderator
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shayne:
09 Feb 2010 2:06:08pm
When he claimed last year that the US was about to default, it was ALMOST believable, after all the US is in a far worse state than we are. But they didn't because govt debt just doesn't work like that.
*ESPECIALLY* considering australias economy is in such a healthy state.
Regardless Joyce needs to shut the hell up and stop trying to spook the markets. Destructive criticism by state functionaries can cause huge amounts of damage, especially when its so demonstrably wrong.
a *lot* of western countries will go under before we ever do.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Craig:
09 Feb 2010 2:07:32pm
I'm absolutely sick of this opposition treating the public like idiots. I want to throw something at the tv every time that Joyce compares government spending to household budgets. Do a Grade 12 Economics class please.....
Come on Malcolm Turnbull, take the bull by the horn and start your own political party. You might not win the next election, but bloody hell you'll come close next time around. Right wing, left wing zealots, be gone!!!Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Udda Mudda:
09 Feb 2010 2:07:44pm
Well, that's one way of destroying confidence in our overseas trading partners.
This is not one of Barnaby Rubble's 'funnies'. It's downright irresponsible and has the potential to damage Australians - of all political persuasions.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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john marshall:
09 Feb 2010 2:09:01pm
I thought being elected to any position within the parliment required a manifest degree of responsibility, obviously not the case with Barny--although it does reflect the 1950s mindset of the opposition something australia cannot afford in the 21 st century--do they think they are going to bully themselves into government--a re-run of their past performances, australia beware
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Polony:
09 Feb 2010 2:09:22pm
"We are getting to a point where we can't repay it."
As detailed at http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/1496/RTF/01_Debt.rtf Australia had gross public sector debt of approximately 100% in 1900 and Gross Australian Government debt increased from around 40 per cent of GDP in 1939 to around 120 per cent of GDP in 1945.
We were evidently able to repay the above debt levels, there is no reason why our ability to repay debt will be any different from in previos periods and finding this information took me less than 5 minutes. Consequently, it is evident that Senator Joyce is either incompetent or fraudulently reckless with the truth.
Although he is an accountant, he is only a CPA.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Tax Me:
09 Feb 2010 2:37:27pm
Actually Polony, as I understand he's a Chartered not a CPA - but why the distinction? And there was a big difference economically in the 30's/40's and our ability to pay amassed debt - we were coming out of a war and productivity was going through the roof. Quite the opposit to current conditions.
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nick:
09 Feb 2010 2:11:46pm
There is nothing to worry! America will collapse under their debt, same as Europe and Japan! So its only fair if Australia joins the club!
By the way, Gouvernment collapses will lead to a restart of the whole economy! The rich loose all their cash and we start fresh! Unfortunately we will have war before this happens!
I suggest we change the dictionary: The new word for "TAKING THE P..S" should be "CAPITALISM"
Luckily most people are too dumb to realise that their will loose their kids in the upcoming conflicts, while they desperately trying to hold on to the inhumane system we live in! SAD SAD!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Y-man:
09 Feb 2010 2:14:50pm
If we are worrying too much about the debt, maybe we should ask what will happen if there is no stimulus package....blame the stimulus package? maybe those people who create the WEC at the first place...greedy bastards.....
NBN.. not entire sure...but Australia definitely needs better infrastructure...
I have come to the conclusion that Libs actually does not like Barnaby at all so that's why they put him into a portfolio that he has absolutely NO idea what's about and then he will constantly embarrass himself until becoming so bad he would have to quit.....
Barnaby is a good barking machine but short of substance...almost like a male drag version of Pauline Hanson.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Braz:
09 Feb 2010 2:15:36pm
I think the Labor Party is terrified of Barnaby Joyce. He has worked hard to successfully turn the ETS into a poison chalice for the Labor Party in many marginal rural Queensland seats held by the Labor Party. He is not a man to be dismissed by the chardonnay sipping, intelligentsia, snide types like Kevin Rudd and other members of his government that allege to know 'what's best' for us all.
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GS:
09 Feb 2010 2:16:53pm
Joyce' comments again are reckless and irresponsible, not in the national interest, and I would argue un-Australian, again.
Even if the government did have trouble meeting it's loan repayments, publicly saying such a thing is horribly irresponsible and the worst thing someone in his position in opposition could say, in terms of the national interest and the nation's ability to operate in a global finanical system.
He is making a complete embarrasment of Australia, his political party and himself. And yet he doesn't even realise he is doing it...
He is yet again proving himself to be a redneck conspiracy theorest, and a detrimental force for the nation, his party, and himself...
He is also proving that he has no education or experience in economics and public policy, he hasn't read or understood a basic first year economics textbook, and yet look at his position in the opposition...Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Laura:
09 Feb 2010 2:16:59pm
I think the Liberals should make Barnaby their official spokesperson on everything! The more he's encouraged to speak the worse they look.
Go Barnaby!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Paradise:
09 Feb 2010 2:18:27pm
Our government debt ratio to GNP is low. Our private debt ratio, in the Howard years, went up about 380%, because it was conservative policy to use debt to build wealth. Thus we have an over-priced housing situation, etc. Joyce is such a fool; it will be noticed by key observers in other countries as well as here. If Joyce was in Japan, Greece, Portugal Spain, even USA and UK, he'd be a scaremonger with some audience, but here, he's an economic illiterate... with plenty of company and a gullible bunch of onlookers behind him.
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trevor:
09 Feb 2010 2:19:02pm
Anyone who thinks the US and Australia iare just doing fine should go do their homework.
The US owes more dollars than there are dollars in circulation, owes more than they can produce in products, their productivity alone (which is low thanks to years of "free markets" which means outsourcing to China and India etc) and tarrifs which means subisidizing farmers for not producing things or destroying food to keep prices high etc etc..
All this means that the greedy are now the ones with the dollars that soon wont be worth anything because the US is about to go under and we will follow like the lapdog Rudd and Howard want us to be down the same path, all these wars for this tiny little middle east nation are the ones that got us where we are.
Poor and uselessAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Dave:
09 Feb 2010 2:20:30pm
Simple Simon,
Based on the most recent figures I have seen, the current commonwealth government debt is comparable to a family with total take-home pay of $100,000 having a mortgage of $16,000. Doesn't sound too unaffordable to me.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Canberra Observer:
09 Feb 2010 2:21:08pm
Ed. On sighting this interesting story from Canberra's political theatre; how many of us really take time out to engage with our politicians and really care about what is being played out on Canberra's political stage?
Australia's political history clearly shows that ALP governments have always been bad economic managers and Senator Joyce is entitled to have his say and to express is concerns re Australia's ability to pay back this massive debt that has exploded since the government implemented its economic stimulus. We should also realise that we don't get anything for nothing unless one steals. However; how many of us also realise that it is the Chinese that are buying up government bonds and if I'm correct, that is where the government is getting their money to fund these pathetic projects. Now we hear today that the federal minister for the Environment via his department is to undertake a investigation on how the money has been spent.
James, you are entitled to express your concerns and to make comment but I think Barnaby Joyce is also entitled to be very angry at what is unfolding down there in Canberra. Whilst our federal political system has kept me interested for nearly 4 decades now, unless we make noise, our way of life is going to suffer further.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Dave:
09 Feb 2010 2:42:45pm
Labor governments don't have a monopoly on bad financial management. We went from net savings to net debt during the Fraser government period. Now, who was the treasurer in the Fraser government.....
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woof:
09 Feb 2010 2:23:10pm
Calm down folks. Barney is talking about an old world system in which 'money' is a tradable and redeemable commodity. The concept of debt is one that can have many meanings (personal, financial, future, forgiven....). We have just seen the G8 wipe out all of Haiti's foreign 'debt' in an attempt to stabilize the country.
The real concern, then is who is owed. The USA's problem is that a lot of their debt is 'owned' by China. China wouldn't dare calling in the debt or the USA would simply default on that debt. What happens then? Does China invade the USA to take out the furniture? I think not.
Do we even know to whom we owe our debt? The recent visit by Prince Willy suggests to me that a lot our debt is to the Royals (Inc).
Recent attempts to replace money by carbon as the world currency seem to have stalled. Gold was defaced by the Germans in WWII and then by Russia.
Diamonds are still a girl's best friend.
And man's best friend is still a pooch!!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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john:
09 Feb 2010 2:23:32pm
Some mothers do have them.
Poor Mrs Joyce, don't be embarrassed he's quite entertaining.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Stellar Acrobat:
09 Feb 2010 2:23:59pm
This is financial terrorism to scare the electorate and more importantly our trading partners.
As a Finance person why am I am not surprised this irresponsible person has spoken rubbish again. A failed accountant uttering this kind of rubbish ends up pushing our interest rates as our sources of funds (foreign debt) start increasing due to perception of higher risk.
In the current environment where Greece , UK and a couple of European countries are the highest risk of default with orders of magnitude higher risk and where as Australia is not on the default radar just shows what an irresponsible person this is. This is DAMAGING to the national interest. Put him back raking up the chalf and keep him away from the economy.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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dollarman:
09 Feb 2010 2:25:09pm
THE ONLY REASON THIS FOOL BARNABY JOYCE IS WHERE HE IS IS THAT HES THE SENIOR NATIONAL PARTY REP. HES A EMBARRASSMENT TO AUSTRALIA AND MAKING THE LABOR PARTY LOOK GOOD.GIVE THIS GUY A LESSER PORTFOLIO.
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Mr Medved:
09 Feb 2010 2:25:13pm
Barnaby Joyce will be painted as a nutter for such comments but he is spot on. I would go further and say that the current level of public and private debt cannot and will not be repaid honestly (without monetary inflation or debt default). People can say, "it's different this time" or, "it's different here" but history shows that it is NEVER different.
Lindsay Tanner's comments is a strawman argument. Developed economies are massively indebted and are in big, big trouble. Just because we are not as indebted as Ireland or Iceland (or many others) doesn't mean our current level of debt and debt growth is healthy.
The worst part is that the debt is not being used to increase productive capacity. Private debt has been used for consumption and bidding up house prices, while federal public debt has been used for annual operating expenses and make-work projects; less than 3% of the stimulus spending will result in increased long-term productive capacity.
He may look like a joker now but when the worst of the current economic depression is upon us Joyce will be one of the few in public office that was couragous to speak out about the debt problem and tell it like it is.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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ET:
09 Feb 2010 2:26:13pm
If he is correct it doesn't sound too good.
But if he is wrong then he and Abbott are doing a great job scaring Australians on all things financial
Its the Woolf
Its the WoolfAgree (0) Alert moderator
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Roy:
09 Feb 2010 2:26:27pm
If this is BJ thinking, imagine the Great Big remedial Tax he will have to introduce when he becomes Treasurer.
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jimmy:
09 Feb 2010 2:27:16pm
I am very surprised of the shallow economic wisdom that Senator Joyce has demonstrated. Has he heard about fiscal policy and the difference between bad debt and payable debt? If we only spend what we earn within our means then no one in Australia can possess a home except the top 2 percent of the household who are very wealthy. We borrow money to finance our future and the investment will grow in long term. Surely there are assumptions and exceptions. But the fact in Australia is that a house price worth 100,000 in early 80s is now worth at least 500,000. To build a NBN requires lot of money, but it is worthwhile to do it if we have a workable plan and management. When will the government has enough surplus to fund the NBN? Never especially in Australia. The history shows we rarely enjoy huge surplus for the government will use them to win elections.
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Andrew:
09 Feb 2010 2:42:54pm
By the time the labour party has finished partying, Oz will have debt over 100% of GDP. Translation: All our tax will go to servicing just the interest on the debt, so no defence spending, no government bueracracy, no pensions, no govt education and health care, .............hey wait a minute! That might be a good result!!!
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hmmm:
09 Feb 2010 2:27:31pm
"They are totally ridiculous and grossly irresponsible."
Yes Mr. Rudd, one should never tell the people the truth.....Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Ann:
09 Feb 2010 2:27:48pm
Conroy recommends a tainted ALP mate for a $450,000 job and he is appointed with advertisment or consideration of other candidates and all we have been able to comment all day are stories supposedly critical of the opposition. I am more worried about Conroy spending $43 billion on an NBN then Joyce.
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Graham:
09 Feb 2010 2:27:49pm
The dude speaks from years of experience of managing the accounts of farmers who have gone broke because they have an idiot of an accountant.
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Shaba:
09 Feb 2010 2:28:54pm
Yes, there are many applications for the NBN other than TV or movies which people seem amazingly ignorant of.
For example there are applications in the industry that I work in (medical imaging) such as enabling a radiologist to diagnose a large digital CT or MRI study regardless of where he/she was in the country at the time. You can have a single doctor reporting for many, many clinics all at once with no downtime. The costs that could be saved for the patient/medicare are potentially very significant.
I also have friends working in IT across other industries such as mining and banking where they have to manage computer systems remotely and shift around large amounts of data. To be able to log in from wherever you may be situated at any one time and continue to do meaningful work is something we should aspire to to remain competitive as a country in these fields.
To be fair though I think the Government is doing an average job of getting the right messages across concerning the benefits of an NBN.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Dan:
09 Feb 2010 2:29:40pm
As much as I hate to admit it, we should be listening to what he is saying. Rarely does a politician say anything that may rock the boat of Australia's over reliance on debt (see housing ponzi scheme). He may be talking rubbish, I don't know as I am not an "economist" (as if they know anything either judging by recent events), but I am willing to listen to some intelligent debate on the issue(as if that's possible from our media/politicians).
This resources boom is not going to last forever, and just because we are enjoying the good times now, we don't need our "leaders" setting a debt time bomb that goes off in a few years when they are out of office and making big $$ on the after dinner speaking circuit.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Tinman:
09 Feb 2010 2:29:59pm
Homer Simpson for PM ! Least he is to stupid to be dangerous , unlike the political alternatives (plural ) here ! Here is a quick quiz for Joyce ! What was "private debt" in this country before Howard, and what is it now ? Farmers reps like Barnaby make me laugh ! They spout all this Neo liberal rubbish , but collect more welfare off Governments than any person on the dole, whom they so like to marginalize because they are easy targets ! How much DEBT is you average Farmer or business in Barnaby ? Because Government debt has little to do with interest rates and it's private debt , that will cause major problems ,if defaulted on, NOT Government debt ! Australia is never like to Default with a tax base like the GST , even less likely with the revenue windfall of a EST, Opps I mean Ets or a TAP "Tony Abbott plan" ). I don't agree with much the Rudd Government has done, and the ETS is a do nothing sham (as is the liberal policy, both designed only to increase the Gov tax base, to pay off these debts etc ) ! Not to seriously address any climate issue ! The climate issue is only a model based theory, about what it's affects might be and is unquantifiable ! What are facts though , are the 1000's of other pollution problems . over use of water problems , etc etc etc, that are occurring now, right here. How about you learn to walk first and address these problems here and NOW first, before trying to control the weather ??? The Liberals idea of an alternative to the Current Government amounts to a slogan " GREAT BIG TAX" and having Barnaby shout from the roof tops like a farm dog chained to a ute , anything to provoke controversy , that appeals to the right wing or the old Howard favorites the Hansonites !
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Say no to nuclear:
09 Feb 2010 2:30:15pm
People, get real!
Barnaby is right, as he is on several issues.
The current Government debt is about 260 billions of dollars. If 6% of interest is paid annually, that is 16 billions of dollars in a freaking year.
Remember two things: (1) interest can only increase from now; and (2) even Prime Minister Howard only had 20 billions a year in surplus, just a little over the interest you have to pay. You have to pay the principal, fools.
Good luck, Mr. Lindsay Tanner, how can you pay the debt off, in a decade?!!!! I do not even believe you, even if you were a liberal Finance Minister.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Jack Stepney:
09 Feb 2010 2:30:19pm
In case you think Barnaby Joyce is not becoming a joke - try typing in "barnaby joyce sarah palin mark latham" into Google - 15,600 hits and rising. (Replace Barnaby Joyce with just about any other polly and you don't get nearly the same hit rate - the exception being Julie Bishop).
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Peter:
09 Feb 2010 2:33:07pm
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying. ---- Oscar Wilde
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AtomicNirvana:
09 Feb 2010 2:37:19pm
It's easy to pay off the debt - get rid of those stupid tax cuts that were put through over the past 3-4 years. It made no difference to anyone's income (an extra coffee a week?) and removed billions in government revenue. That would be a fiscally responsible move, but won't be populist, so won't happen.
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Arthur Putey:
09 Feb 2010 2:37:48pm
Would other contributors here like to hazard a guess as to what Barnaby's next "Great Big New Gaffe" will be?
Seeing that Senator Joyce is starting to behave so much like Sarah Palin (as per my previous post) could it be that he'll advocate bombing Iran? And if you bear in mind Barnaby's recent outbursts, you'll realise that that suggestion is most definitely NOT in any sense a joke.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Jennifer:
09 Feb 2010 2:42:03pm
This is what happens under a Labor Government - we go into debt. They are great at spending money they don't have to build infrastructure that we need.
Yes Labour does serve a purpose but after one term in Governmnet, maximum two, we have to kick them out before they completely stuff up Australia's economy. Those are the facts, just take a look at the history books, they don't and never will understand money....Agree (2) Alert moderator
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